Legislature(2023 - 2024)SENATE FINANCE 532

02/09/2023 09:00 AM Senate FINANCE

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Audio Topic
09:00:09 AM Start
09:01:06 AM Presentation: School Major Maintenance & Construction Update – Department of Education and Early Development
10:24:20 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Teleconferenced --
School Major Maintenance & Construction Update
- Department of Education & Early Development
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
                 SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                     February 9, 2023                                                                                           
                         9:00 a.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:00:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman   called  the  Senate   Finance  Committee                                                                    
meeting to order at 9:00 a.m.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lyman Hoffman, Co-Chair                                                                                                 
Senator Donny Olson, Co-Chair                                                                                                   
Senator Bert Stedman, Co-Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Click Bishop                                                                                                            
Senator Jesse Kiehl                                                                                                             
Senator Kelly Merrick                                                                                                           
Senator David Wilson                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
None                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Heidi Teshner, Acting  Commissioner, Department of Education                                                                    
and  Early Development;  Joe Willhoite,  Facilities Manager,                                                                    
Department of  Education and  Early Development;  Lori Weed,                                                                    
School  Finance  Specialist,  Department  of  Education  and                                                                    
Early Development; Elwin  Blackwell, School Finance Manager,                                                                    
Department of Education and Early Development.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
PRESENTATION:  SCHOOL   MAJOR  MAINTENANCE   &  CONSTRUCTION                                                                    
UPDATE  DEPARTMENT of EDUCATION and EARLY DEVELOPMENT                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman discussed the agenda.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
^PRESENTATION:  SCHOOL  MAJOR   MAINTENANCE  &  CONSTRUCTION                                                                  
UPDATE  DEPARTMENT of EDUCATION and EARLY DEVELOPMENT                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:01:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HEIDI TESHNER, ACTING  COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION                                                                    
AND  EARLY DEVELOPMENT,  introduced herself  and her  staff.                                                                    
She addressed a  PowerPoint presentation entitled "State-Aid                                                                    
for  School  Capital Projects:  Grant  and  Debt," (copy  on                                                                    
file).                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Acting  Commissioner Teshner  looked at  slide 2,  "Mission,                                                                    
Vision, and Purpose:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Mission                                                                                                                    
    An excellent education for every student every day.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Vision                                                                                                                     
     All students will succeed in  their education and work,                                                                    
     shape worthwhile  and satisfying lives  for themselves,                                                                    
     exemplify the best values of  society, and be effective                                                                    
     in  improving the  character and  quality of  the world                                                                    
     about them.                                                                                                                
     -Alaska Statute 14.03.015                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Purpose                                                                                                                    
     DEED  exists  to  provide information,  resources,  and                                                                    
     leadership to support an  excellent education for every                                                                    
     student every day.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:02:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Acting  Commissioner Teshner  spoke to  slide 3,  "Strategic                                                                    
Priorities: Alaska's Education Challenge":                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Five Shared Priorities:                                                                                                    
     1. Support all  students to read at grade  level by the                                                                    
     end of third grade.                                                                                                        
     2. Increase career,  technical, and culturally relevant                                                                    
     education to meet student and workforce needs.                                                                             
     3.  Close the  achievement  gap  by ensuring  equitable                                                                    
     educational rigor and resources.                                                                                           
     4.  Prepare, attract,  and  retain effective  education                                                                    
     professionals.                                                                                                             
     5.  Improve  the  safety  and  well-being  of  students                                                                    
     through    school     partnerships    with    families,                                                                    
     communities, and tribes.                                                                                                   
9:02:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Acting Commissioner  Teshner referenced slide 4,  " Historic                                                                    
School Capital Funding":                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     1. Federal                                                                                                                 
     2. State Funding Mechanisms (General Fund)                                                                                 
          Grants (~1970)                                                                                                        
               General Obligation (G.O.) Bonds (2003, 2011)                                                                     
               AHFC Revenue Bonds (1999, 2001, 2002)                                                                            
          Debt Reimbursement (1971)                                                                                             
               School Fund  AS 43.50.140 (FY1999-present)                                                                       
               Others (i.e.: Insurance Fund  AS 22.55.430)                                                                      
     3. Local Educational Agency (LEA)                                                                                          
          Capital Reserves                                                                                                      
          Municipal Debt                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Acting  Commissioner  Teshner  noted  that  there  would  be                                                                    
forthcoming detail on debt reimbursement.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:04:17 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOE WILLHOITE,  FACILITIES MANAGER, DEPARTMENT  OF EDUCATION                                                                    
AND EARLY  DEVELOPMENT, reviewed  the mission  statements as                                                                    
they  related to  the facilities  team. He  relayed that  he                                                                    
worked to  provide an accessible  and safe  environment that                                                                    
invoked  a source  of pride  for each  student. He  said his                                                                    
team  worked  to  close  the  achievement  gap  by  ensuring                                                                    
equitable educational  rigor and resources. He  spoke of his                                                                    
role in  preparing and attracting  educational professionals                                                                    
by  maintaining  proper  facilities.   He  shared  that  his                                                                    
background was  in architecture, which he  believed informed                                                                    
his facilities work.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:06:30 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Willhoite  turned to  slide 5,  "Recent Funding  (SB 237                                                                    
Report)":                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     • SB 237 (Chapter 93 SLA 2010)  AS 14.11.035                                                                               
          • Annual report on school construction and major                                                                      
          maintenance funding                                                                                                   
         • First report completed in February 2013                                                                              
     • $1,585,824,383 in funding                                                                                                
          • Total project value for Debt projects                                                                               
          • State share value for Grant projects                                                                                
     • Supplementary handout                                                                                                    
          • February 2022 AS 14.11.035 (SB 237) Report                                                                          
               • Project Funding by District (report                                                                            
               Appendix A)                                                                                                      
               • Project Listing by District (report                                                                            
               Appendix B)                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Willhoite  noted that Handout  1 was the  School Capital                                                                    
Project Funding under  SB 237 (copy on file).  He noted that                                                                    
the 2022 supplementary  report would be provided  at the end                                                                    
of the month.  He thought it was important to  note that the                                                                    
funding was spread out over ten years.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman asked for the  funding numeric to be broken                                                                    
down by how  much was submitted by the  legislature, as well                                                                    
as   the  governors    original   proposal  and   subsequent                                                                    
amendments.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman  asked   Acting  Commissioner  Teshner  to                                                                    
provide the information to the committee.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Acting   Commissioner   Teshner   agreed  to   provide   the                                                                    
information.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Willhoite continued to address slide 6.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:07:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Willhoite  considered   slide   6,  "Current   Funding                                                                    
Options":                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     1. School Construction Grant Fund (1990) AS 14.11.005                                                                      
    2. Major Maintenance Grant Fund (1993) AS 14.11.007                                                                         
     3. Regional Educational Attendance Area (REAA) and                                                                         
     Small Municipal School District School Fund (2010) AS                                                                      
     14.11.030                                                                                                                  
          - Indexed Fund                                                                                                        
          - DR Funding divided by percent of municipal                                                                          
         schools multiplied by 0.244 AS 14.11.025                                                                               
     4. School Debt Reimbursement (DR) Funding AS 14.11.102                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Willhoite noted that the  first three bullet points went                                                                    
through the  capital improvement  process (CIP)  process. He                                                                    
related  that   there  was  a  moratorium   on  school  debt                                                                    
reimbursement through 2025.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:08:56 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Willhoite   displayed   slide  7,   "Current   Project                                                                    
Categories (AS 14.11.013)":                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     (School Construction and Major Maintenance)                                                                              
     (A) avert  imminent danger or  correct life-threatening                                                                    
     situations;                                                                                                                
     (B)  house students  who would  otherwise be  unhoused;                                                                    
     for  purposes   of  this  subparagraph,   students  are                                                                    
     considered unhoused  if the  students attend  school in                                                                    
     temporary facilities;                                                                                                      
     (C)   protect   the   structure  of   existing   school                                                                    
     facilities;                                                                                                                
     (D)  correct building  code  deficiencies that  require                                                                    
     major  repair  or  rehabilitation   in  order  for  the                                                                    
     facility  to continue  to be  used for  the educational                                                                    
     program;                                                                                                                   
     (E) achieve an operating cost savings;                                                                                     
     (F) modify  or rehabilitate facilities for  the purpose                                                                    
     of improving the instructional program;                                                                                    
     (G) meet  an educational  need not  specified in  (A)                                                                      
    (F) of this paragraph, identified by the department                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Willhoite noted  that  the  items on  slide  7 were  in                                                                    
categories as  follows: school construction    A, B,  and F;                                                                    
major  maintenance     C,  D,  and  E.  He  noted  that  the                                                                    
categories were  not scoring  metrics but  rather categories                                                                    
that  CIP list  applicants indicated  as a  focus and  was a                                                                    
filter through which  the department decided if  an item was                                                                    
a  school   construction  or  major  maintenance   item.  He                                                                    
furthered that  there was  an emergency  section in  the CIP                                                                    
review  that  gave an  additional  50  points to  the  total                                                                    
matrix and  considered the  emergency aspects  of particular                                                                    
projects. He said that it  was incumbent on the districts to                                                                    
reinforce the emergency on their applications.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman  cited that another  area that had  come to                                                                    
light  in  recent  years  was  funding  teacher  housing  to                                                                    
facilitate better recruitment of  teachers. After many years                                                                    
the facilities  needed repair. He asserted  that considering                                                                    
how  the facilities  could be  better  maintained should  be                                                                    
considered. He  invited the commissioner to  submit ideas on                                                                    
how the  matter could  be addressed.  He emphasized  that if                                                                    
the  buildings were  not maintained  they would  continue to                                                                    
deteriorate.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:11:55 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Willhoite  highlighted  slide  8, "Fund     Category                                                                       
Entity    which showed  a matrix  of the  funding categories                                                                    
and was a  guide to which funds went to  which project type.                                                                    
He   addressed  the   center  column   what  showed   school                                                                    
construction and  major maintenance fund and  noted that the                                                                    
applied to all  entity and project types.  He furthered that                                                                    
the  REAA   fund  applied  to   all  but   the  city/borough                                                                    
districts.  He  stated  that   debt  reimbursement  did  not                                                                    
necessarily   apply  to   school   construction  and   major                                                                    
maintenance, or REAA districts.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:13:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Willhoite  looked  at  slide  9,  "Capital  Improvement                                                                    
Project (CIP) Eligibility":                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     1. Six-year capital improvement plan                                                                                       
    2. Functioning fixed asset inventory system (FAIS)                                                                          
     3. Proof of required property insurance                                                                                    
     4. Certified Preventive Maintenance and Facility                                                                           
     Management Program                                                                                                         
     5. Capital project and not maintenance                                                                                     
     6. Participating share                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Willhoite  wanted to add important  items for discussion                                                                    
that were not  included on the slide. He  discussed what the                                                                    
department did to support item 4  and item 5 on the list. He                                                                    
relayed  that  all districts  were  visited  on a  five-year                                                                    
rotation by  members of a  facilities team, which  worked to                                                                    
help schools  through the process to  establish and maintain                                                                    
a healthy  maintenance policy and system.  He qualified that                                                                    
the  department did  not do  facility  assessments but  were                                                                    
there in  a support role  to help with the  understanding of                                                                    
the importance  of maintenance. He  had a certain  amount of                                                                    
passion for  maintenance. He emphasized that  buildings were                                                                    
perishable. He considered that  the metric of sophistication                                                                    
of a society  was how well it maintained its  buildings.  He                                                                    
believed that a thorough  maintenance program might preclude                                                                    
the need for a major maintenance program.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:16:19 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Willhoite  addressed slide 10, "Grant  Participation and                                                                    
Eligibility":                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     1. Capital Improvement Project (CIP) Grant Application                                                                     
     Due  from school  districts on  or  before September  1                                                                    
     (annually)                                                                                                                 
     CIP   Application   materials   are   posted   on   our                                                                    
     website(https://education.alaska.gov/facilities/facili                                                                     
     tiescip)                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     2. Project Ranking                                                                                                         
     Ranked in  accordance with criteria  in AS 14.11  and 4                                                                    
     AAC 31                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     3. Eligibility                                                                                                             
     Districts  must have  a six-year  plan,  a fixed  asset                                                                    
     inventory  system,  adequate property  loss  insurance,                                                                    
     and  a preventive  maintenance and  facility management                                                                    
     program certified by the department                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     4. CIP Priority Lists                                                                                                      
     Initial lists are released on November 5                                                                                   
     Final  lists   are  released  after  any   appeals  for                                                                    
     reconsideration are finalized                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:17:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Willhoite advanced  to slide  11, "Grant  Participation                                                                    
and  Eligibility -  FY2014    FY2024,"  which  showed a  bar                                                                    
graph  that illustrated  participating CIP  grants that  had                                                                    
been received  over the  last decade.  He stressed  that the                                                                    
slide was  not necessarily reflective  of the ones  that had                                                                    
been fully  funded. He noted  that it took a  certain amount                                                                    
of  money to  put together  a grant  application.   He cited                                                                    
that major maintenance  was the largest portion  of the bars                                                                    
shown,  with school  construction following,  and ineligible                                                                    
applications in  lime green. He thought  that the ineligible                                                                    
applications  were   less  than   4  percent,   which  could                                                                    
hopefully be  lowered to zero  with additional  training. He                                                                    
shared that there would be a CIP workshop in the spring.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:19:58 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Bishop   expressed   his  appreciation   for   Mr.                                                                    
Willhoite.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:20:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Willhoite  looked at  slide 12,  "Grant Awards  FY2014                                                                      
FY2023," which showed a table  that reflected grants awarded                                                                    
over the  last decade.  He observed  trends with  areas that                                                                    
showed no funding and noted that  by and large an effort had                                                                    
been made  to provide some  funding each year over  the last                                                                    
ten years.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:21:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Willhoite  showed  slide   13,  "Total  Eligible  Grant                                                                    
Projects  and Actual  Grant Funding  by Fiscal  Year," which                                                                    
showed  a  table  detailing   fiscal  year/list,  number  of                                                                    
projects,  total eligible  state share,  number of  projects                                                                    
funded, and amount funded.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:21:35 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  referenced slide 13. He  was curious about                                                                    
the amount of maintenance  and construction funding that had                                                                    
been vetoed each year in the years reflected on the slide.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman  wondered  whether   he  wanted  the  FY23                                                                    
number.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  thought there  were multiple years  to use                                                                    
as an example.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman thought  Co-Chair Stedman  was making  the                                                                    
point  that   the  legislature   recognized  the   need  for                                                                    
maintenance and had funded numerous  projects over the years                                                                    
that were subsequently vetoed  by whatever sitting governor.                                                                    
He thought the  audience should be aware  that the committee                                                                    
had been working on the issue as a priority.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:23:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Kiehl agreed  with  Co-Chair  Stedman and  Co-Chair                                                                    
Hoffman. He wondered whether the slide reflected a pattern.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Willhoite   was  not   prepared  to   answer  questions                                                                    
regarding trends due to his short tenure at DEED.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Acting  Commissioner  Teshner thought  districts  considered                                                                    
the  time  and  money  associated  with  putting  forth  and                                                                    
application,  as well  as how  much money  was appropriated.                                                                    
She said  that in  response to many  years of  limited major                                                                    
maintenance appropriations,  districts would likely  not put                                                                    
in the  work and resources  to complete an  application. She                                                                    
noted  that  in  FY23,  21 projects  were  funded  with  the                                                                    
appropriation.  She stated  that applications  were directly                                                                    
correlated  to  whether  projects  were  being  consistently                                                                    
funded.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Kiehl appreciated  the response.  He was  trying to                                                                    
determine  whether  the  final  appropriation  results  gave                                                                    
districts an efficient way to spend the funds.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:25:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bishop wanted to offer  background on the history of                                                                    
major maintenance  funding. He noted  that at one  point the                                                                    
list had been funded entirely.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Willhoite  was not  surprised  at  what Senator  Bishop                                                                    
described.   He   reiterated   that  buildings   went   into                                                                    
maintenance  phase  as  soon   as  they  were  occupied.  He                                                                    
commented on the ongoing nature  of maintenance. He stressed                                                                    
that there were  a lot of costs that went  into submitting a                                                                    
CIP  application,  many  of which  were  things  he  thought                                                                    
districts should  be doing regardless, such  as meeting with                                                                    
engineers  and  designers  to  provide   a  scope  and  cost                                                                    
estimates for  projects. He qualified that  limited time and                                                                    
resources  could lead  to districts  skipping these  natural                                                                    
considerations.  He thought  the items  required by  statute                                                                    
were a  way to encourage  districts to participate  fully in                                                                    
the  application process.  He thought  the upfront  cost was                                                                    
not  entirely  dedicated  to the  application  process,  but                                                                    
rather something for the district's sake. H                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:28:45 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Willhoite referenced slide  14, "Appropriations into the                                                                    
REAA  and  Small  Municipal  School  District  Fund,"  which                                                                    
showed a  table off fiscal  year appropriations by  year and                                                                    
amount. The total over the late 10 years was $443,279,906.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:29:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Willhoite turned  to slide  15,  "Allocations from  the                                                                    
REAA  and  Small  Municipal  School  District  Fund,"  which                                                                    
showed  two  tables  showing   new  appropriation  funds  to                                                                    
projects. The  table began  in FY14 and  ended in  FY23, and                                                                    
included fiscal year, project name, and allocation amount.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:30:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman mentioned  inadvertent  events in  Western                                                                    
Alaska that had caused damage  to school buildings. He asked                                                                    
for a status update on some of those projects.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Willhoite agreed and deferred  the project status update                                                                    
to Lori Weed.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:30:56 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LORI   WEED,  SCHOOL   FINANCE  SPECIALIST,   DEPARTMENT  OF                                                                    
EDUCATION AND EARLY DEVELOPMENT,                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman  asked  about  projects  at  Napakiak  and                                                                    
Kaktovik.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Weed relayed  that the  project in  Napakiak was  fully                                                                    
funded in the FY23 appropriation.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman relayed  that the  reason for  the project                                                                    
was that the school was falling into the Kuskokwim River.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Weed  agreed and  noted that the  project had  created a                                                                    
new  scoring  category  to  accommodate  erosion  needs  and                                                                    
projects in the state.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Weed addressed  the school  in  Kaktovik. She  detailed                                                                    
that  burned school  should be  covered under  insurance and                                                                    
eligible   schools   could    be   considered   under   STIP                                                                    
applications to cover costs.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:33:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Olson asked what happened  when the insurance money                                                                    
was distributed    was it  distributed to the school  or the                                                                    
state. He asked where  the insurance proceeds were disbursed                                                                    
when a school was destroyed by fire.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Weed  explained  that the  insurance  distribution  was                                                                    
dependent upon  the ownership of  the school. She  said that                                                                    
in all cases the money would  go to the district, whether it                                                                    
be directly or through the state.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Olson  asked what  happened  in  the case  that  a                                                                    
school burned  down and there  were not sufficient  funds to                                                                    
rebuild.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Weed  stated that  all schools  should be  fully insured                                                                    
for replacement costs.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Olson  asserted that  that  was  not the  case  in                                                                    
Kaktovik because it had been built many years ago.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Weed suggested  that  the  insurance replacement  costs                                                                    
should increase overtime.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Olson mentioned  a more  recent fire  in Savoonga,                                                                    
which he thought  involved the old school that  was used for                                                                    
teacher housing  that had  burned down.  He asked  about the                                                                    
status of that project.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Weed replied that she could not speak about the matter.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Willhoite agreed to get  back to the committee with more                                                                    
information.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Olson understood  that the REAA Fund  did not cover                                                                    
teacher housing. He asked what  would be done in cases where                                                                    
schools lacked teachers due to inadequate housing.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Weed  relayed that currently  the REAA Program  does not                                                                    
cover any funding for residential buildings.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:36:08 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Olson asked  how much resistance there  would be in                                                                    
changing  the regulation  or statute  to allow  REAA funding                                                                    
for teacher housing.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Weed stated that she did not know.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:36:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Olson   commented  that  Chevak  was   in  Senator                                                                    
Hoffmans district.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman  offered that he had  visited the community                                                                    
recently.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:36:41 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ELWIN  BLACKWELL,  SCHOOL  FINANCE  MANAGER,  DEPARTMENT  OF                                                                    
EDUCATION  AND EARLY  DEVELOPMENT,  considered  slide 16,  "                                                                    
Debt Reimbursement and Eligibility":                                                                                            
     1. Debt Reimbursement program is established in AS                                                                       
     14.11.100                                                                                                                
     2. Capital Improvement Project (CIP) Debt Application                                                                    
          a.  May   be  received   at  any  time   the  Debt                                                                    
          Reimbursement program is open                                                                                         
          b.  CIP Application  materials are  posted on  our                                                                    
          website                                                                                                               
          (https://education.alaska.gov/facilities/faciliti                                                                     
          escip)                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     3. Project Ranking                                                                                                       
          a.  Projects  are  not  ranked  or  evaluated  for                                                                    
          prioritized need                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     4. Eligibility                                                                                                           
         a. All types of Cities, except 3rd Class                                                                               
          b. All types of Boroughs                                                                                              
          c. Districts  must have a  six-year plan,  a fixed                                                                    
          asset  inventory  system, adequate  property  loss                                                                    
          insurance,  and   a  preventive   maintenance  and                                                                    
          facility  management  program   certified  by  the                                                                    
          department                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Blackwell  explained  that  was  no  need  for  ranking                                                                    
projects  as  projects  were funded  by  municipalities.  He                                                                    
noted  that   not  all  cities  and   boroughs  had  bonding                                                                    
capacity. The  department required  similar documents  to be                                                                    
submitted   for   debt   reimbursement  as   for   a   grant                                                                    
application.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:39:03 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Blackwell  displayed   slide  17,  "Debt  Reimbursement                                                                    
Trends,"  which  gave  a  quick  overview  of  reimbursement                                                                    
rates:                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
   • Percentage of annual Debt Service                                                                                          
        o FY1971   FY1977   100 percent                                                                                         
        o FY1978   FY1983   90 percent                                                                                          
        o FY1984   FY1994   80 percent                                                                                          
        o FY1995   FY1999   70 percent                                                                                          
        o FY2000  FY2015 70 percent/ 60 percent*                                                                                
             square4 SB64 (Chapter 3 SLA 2015) implemented a                                                                    
               moratorium on additional debt reimbursement                                                                      
               through FY2020                                                                                                   
             square4 HB106 (Chapter 6 SLA 2020) extended the                                                                    
               moratorium on additional debt reimbursement                                                                      
               through FY2025                                                                                                   
        o FY2026  FY20xx  50 percent/ 40 percent**                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     *Northwest Arctic Borough at 90 percent for bonds                                                                          
     between 1990-2006                                                                                                          
     **Rates shown are reflective of current statute after                                                                      
     the moratorium is lifted                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:41:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Blackwell  highlighted  slide 18,  "Debt  Reimbursement                                                                    
Trends," which showed  a bar graph of  historic debt funding                                                                    
by reimbursement rate.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Blackwell  looked  at  slide  19,  "Debt  Reimbursement                                                                    
Trends,"  which showed  a bar  graph illustrating  the state                                                                    
share of  outstanding debt  projected from FY  24 to  FY 42.                                                                    
The  chart  included all  bonds  that  were outstanding  and                                                                    
excluded  all authorized  but unsold  bonds.  He noted  that                                                                    
there  was   an  associated   document,  Handout   2,  which                                                                    
corresponded  with   the  black   line  on  the   graph  and                                                                    
represented  the  state  liability portion  of  the  program                                                                    
(copy on file).                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:42:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Blackwell  addressed  slide 20,  "  Debt  Reimbursement                                                                    
Trends,"   which    showed   a   chart    illustrating   the                                                                    
appropriated,  and  eligible   amounts  that  municipalities                                                                    
should have  received from 1976  to present. There  had been                                                                    
years when  the program  was underfunded,  but for  the most                                                                    
part  the program  had been  fully  funded for  most of  its                                                                    
life. He  mentioned periods  of time in  the 1980s  when the                                                                    
state   experienced   fiscal   difficulties  that   led   to                                                                    
underfunding.  Recently   in  2017,  2020,  and   2021,  the                                                                    
appropriation  was  not  sufficient  to  meet  the  eligible                                                                    
amount.  In 2021,  the appropriation  was  zero after  being                                                                    
vetoed  by the  governor. He  cited that  in FY22,  under HB
281, money had  been received to fully fund  2017, 2020, and                                                                    
2021. The  graph did not  show the  funding from HB  281. He                                                                    
noted  that the  years were  made whole  after the  fact. He                                                                    
said that FY23 and FY24 were fully funded.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:44:17 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Blackwell  advanced  to slide  21,  "Debt  Proceed  and                                                                    
Refundings":                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     • Initial Bond Sales                                                                                                       
          • After bonds are  sold, the department identifies                                                                    
          how much  of approved  projects are funded  by the                                                                    
          new bond                                                                                                              
          •  Establish any  proration's for  bonds based  on                                                                    
          approved    project   reimbursement    rate.   (AS                                                                    
          14.11.100(a))                                                                                                         
     • Refunding of Bonds                                                                                                       
          •  Refunding  of  current bonds  must  follow  the                                                                    
          requirements in AS 14.11.100(j)(2)                                                                                    
          •  Department  evaluates refundings  by  comparing                                                                    
          the annual  debt service of the  refunding package                                                                    
          to  the  original  annual   debt  service  of  the                                                                    
          bond(s)  that  are  refunded. The  refunding  must                                                                    
          show an annual savings                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Blackwell said that bond  issues were tracked to be sure                                                                    
the  full  amount   was  received.  He  stated   that  if  a                                                                    
municipality  sold a  bond  for more  than  the project  the                                                                    
reimbursement would  be prorated  to isolate out  the school                                                                    
approved  project portion  of the  bond and  the eligibility                                                                    
rate  would   be  applied.  He   relayed  that   there  were                                                                    
requirements    in   statute    pertaining   to    refunding                                                                    
stipulations.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:46:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Blackwell looked  at  slide  22, "Funding  Comparison,"                                                                    
which  showed a  table of  comparing between  the REAA/Small                                                                    
Muni, SC/MM Grant Funds, and  Debt Reimbursement.  The graph                                                                    
showed what was allowed in  the different types of available                                                                    
funding mechanisms for capital.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:47:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Blackwell  spoke to slide  23, "Additional  Handouts and                                                                    
Resources":                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     • Supplementary handouts                                                                                                   
          • FY2024 School Construction Grant Fund List                                                                          
        • FY2024 Major Maintenance Grant Fund List                                                                              
     • DEED's Facilities website:                                                                                               
      https://education.alaska.gov/facilities                                                                                   
          • School Facility Database                                                                                            
          https://education.alaska.gov/doe_rolodex/schoolca                                                                     
          lendar/facility                                                                                                       
          • Preventive Maintenance & Facility Management                                                                        
          Program                                                                                                               
        https://education.alaska.gov/facilities/PM                                                                              
          • CIP Application and Support                                                                                         
          https://education.alaska.gov/facilities/facilitie                                                                     
          scip                                                                                                                  
          •       CIP       Grant       Priority       Lists                                                                    
          https://education.alaska.gov/facilities/facilitie                                                                     
          spl                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:47:57 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Acting  Commissioner  Teshner   referenced  slide  24,  "Mt.                                                                    
Edgecumbe High  School (MEHS) Deferred  Maintenance Projects                                                                    
Currently Funded":                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     • Freezer/Cooler Building Replacement                                                                                      
     • Bleachers, Swimming and Survival Equipment                                                                               
     • Building 295 Heritage Hall Window Upgrades                                                                               
     • Building 290 Kitchen Ventilation Upgrades                                                                                
     • Campus ADA Upgrades                                                                                                      
     • Campus-wide Restroom Upgrades                                                                                            
          • Building 1330 Academic                                                                                              
          • Building 1331 Gymnasium                                                                                             
          • Building 295 Heritage Hall                                                                                          
          • Building 297 Ivy Hall                                                                                               
    • Building 299 Access Stairs and Bridge Replacement                                                                         
     • Master Plan Update                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Acting Commissioner  Teshner shared that Mt.  Edgecumbe High                                                                    
School was  part of the  department but did not  qualify for                                                                    
school  construction or  major maintenance  and were  funded                                                                    
through deferred maintenance appropriations from the state.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Olson referenced  Mt. Edgecumbe  and wondered  how                                                                    
capital improvements were funded for the facility.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Acting Commissioner Teshner noted  that Handout 7 showed the                                                                    
needs of the  school (copy on file). She  said that projects                                                                    
were  identified   yearly  and   then  prioritized   by  the                                                                    
department  and   funded  through  the   statewide  deferred                                                                    
maintenance appropriation. She spoke  of the third bullet on                                                                    
the  slide  and noted  that  it  had  been identified  as  a                                                                    
priority.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:50:37 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman relayed  that the  issue of  Mt. Edgecumbe                                                                    
maintenance  funding had  been brought  to his  attention by                                                                    
colleagues.  He thought  that  the REAA  Fund  needed to  be                                                                    
modified  through  the  legislative  process  to  allow  the                                                                    
school  to  qualify.  He thought  Co-Chair  Stedman  made  a                                                                    
compelling argument  that the school should  be eligible for                                                                    
REAA and major maintenance funding.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  considered  the  list  on  slide  24  and                                                                    
highlighted the  second item. He assumed  that the bleachers                                                                    
were for the aquatic center and not the school gymnasium.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Acting Commissioner Teshner answered affirmatively.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  argued  that   the  item  was  not  major                                                                    
maintenance, in  fact the bleachers  were brand  new, funded                                                                    
by  an appropriation  the previous  year. He  said that  the                                                                    
facility had  been under construction  for a decade  and was                                                                    
finally complete.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Acting  Commissioner Teshner  relayed that  the construction                                                                    
on the  project was  fully done. The  additional outstanding                                                                    
items on the slide were not construction projects.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair    Stedman    understood   that    the    bleachers                                                                    
appropriation  was  done, and  asked  whether  DEED had  the                                                                    
funds to complete the project  for the purpose of installing                                                                    
the new bleachers.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Acting Commissioner  Teshner stated  that to  her knowledge,                                                                    
the department had the funds  for installation of extras for                                                                    
the aquatic center.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:54:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  asked whether Acting  Commissioner Teshner                                                                    
could provide a  financial update on the  aquatic center. He                                                                    
understood that  the revenue situation  at the  facility was                                                                    
improving,  and funds  were  being  generated for  operating                                                                    
expenses.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Acting Commissioner Teshner agreed  to provide the committee                                                                    
with the information.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman expressed that  the project had slowed down                                                                    
funding for other capital needs.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:55:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Acting  Commissioner  Teshner  turned   to  slide  25,  "Mt.                                                                    
Edgecumbe High School (MEHS) Deferred Maintenance Backlog":                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     • FY2024 Deferred Maintenance Capital Memo (Handout                                                                        
     #7)                                                                                                                        
     • Environmental Cleanup and Renovation of Building                                                                         
     288, Old Firehouse Building  estimated at $662.0                                                                           
     • Environmental Cleanup and Demolition of Building                                                                         
     296, Old Paint Shop  estimated at $244.0                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Acting Commissioner  Teshner reminded  that the  projects on                                                                    
the slide were detailed on Handout 7 (copy on file).                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman expressed  concern at  the length  of time                                                                    
the facilities had been in  poor condition. He reminded that                                                                    
the facilities were  built during World War II  and had been                                                                    
abandoned for  decades. He thought unhoused  individuals had                                                                    
occupied the buildings. He mentioned  lead paint and various                                                                    
hazards  associated  with  the structures.  He  thought  the                                                                    
structures  were a  health hazard.  He  recognized that  the                                                                    
project  was  on the  list  produced  by the  Department  of                                                                    
Transportation  and Public  Facilities  (as demonstrated  on                                                                    
Handout 7). He was concerned about  item 7 and item 8 on the                                                                    
list, which were the items reflected on slide 25.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  wanted an  update  on  the land  exchange                                                                    
taking  place  with  the Southeast  Alaska  Regional  Health                                                                    
Consortium (SEARHC).                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:59:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman wanted  more information as to  why the two                                                                    
land parcels  had not been  transferred. He was not  sure of                                                                    
the financial  terms that  were part  of the  agreement, but                                                                    
hoped the involved parties were  working together to come up                                                                    
with  an  arrangement  that  benefited  Mt.  Edgecumbe  High                                                                    
School.  He thought  the hospital  was very  concerned about                                                                    
the  unsightly  buildings  being  in proximity  to  the  new                                                                    
facilities.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman looked  at item  1 on  the handout,  which                                                                    
concerned the  dining hall renovation  at MEHS.  He reminded                                                                    
the  committee  that  the   dormitories  were  old  military                                                                    
barracks that  were constructed near  the time of  WWII. The                                                                    
structures  were built  hastily  and  inexpensively. He  had                                                                    
concerns about putting  money into the old  dorms. He wanted                                                                    
to have a conversation about  the school facility itself and                                                                    
consideration of building new dorms.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman  noted the last  item on slide  24,  Master                                                                    
Plan Update.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  hoped that the committee  could review the                                                                    
update once it was available.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman asked Acting  Commissioner Teshner when the                                                                    
update would be available.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Acting Commissioner Teshner relayed  that the department had                                                                    
almost completed  phase one of  the master plan  update, and                                                                    
the final should be completed by summer of 2023.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:03:32 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  referenced  item   9  on  handout  7  and                                                                    
reiterated  his  and  Senator  Olsons   concerns  about  the                                                                    
number of students  per dorm room at MEHS.  He stressed that                                                                    
the  bunks had  been built  in  1980. He  believed that  the                                                                    
school needed  to be  in the system  with all  other schools                                                                    
under the  departments  per view  for the legislature  to be                                                                    
privy to maintenance needs.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:04:31 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Olson considered  the success  rate of  the school                                                                    
and stressed that its environment should be welcoming.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:05:06 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman appreciated the  leeway to address MEHS. He                                                                    
commented on the  need for backup generators  at the school,                                                                    
which  he thought  were  a  good idea  for  all schools.  He                                                                    
reminded  the committee  that the  basketball court  at MEHS                                                                    
was used for a variety of community events.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman asked whether  the department supported the                                                                    
recommendations  of the  legislature for  funding for  MEHS,                                                                    
even as the  OMB director was calling for  sacrifices in the                                                                    
Capital Budget.                                                                                                                 
Acting  Commissioner Teshner  relayed that  DEED prioritized                                                                    
MEHS. She  stated that the  students were under  the purview                                                                    
of the  department. She said  that the  department supported                                                                    
appropriations for MEHS.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  thought it would  be a great idea  to have                                                                    
some  members  take  a  tour  of  the  MEHS  facilities.  He                                                                    
commented on  the success  rate of  the school  in educating                                                                    
future leaders. He thought it  would be nice for the members                                                                    
to familiarize themselves with the facility.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:07:55 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Merrick  asked how many  students attended  MEHS and                                                                    
whether they paid for tuition and board.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Acting  Commissioner  Teshner  cited  that  there  were  400                                                                    
students  from 111  communities across  the state.  Students                                                                    
paid a student  activities fee, which was the  only fee that                                                                    
was paid.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:08:23 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilson recalled that he  had toured the MEHS campus.                                                                    
He  thought  MEHS  was an  amazing  facility.  He  mentioned                                                                    
staircase replacement  and asbestos abatement.  He mentioned                                                                    
additional  costs  to  families  to  send  students  to  the                                                                    
school. He  was in  support of more  funding to  upgrade the                                                                    
school.  He mentioned  ADA upgrades  thought more  should be                                                                    
done for the school, which fell within the state's purview.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman commented  that in  the past  students had                                                                    
been willing to  leave their communities for  the promise of                                                                    
a better  education. He thought  MEHS had a waitlist  to get                                                                    
in because of the outstanding reputation of the school.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  spoke of the financial  hardships faced by                                                                    
rural students  to attend  MEHS. He  thought that  the state                                                                    
could step  up and help  to make the  opportunity accessible                                                                    
to poor and rural students.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:11:04 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  noted  that  most of  the  families  with                                                                    
students at  MEHS were not  high-income earners.  He thought                                                                    
the committee  should work with the  department to determine                                                                    
what  needed  to  be  done   to  potentially  fund  students                                                                    
returning  home  for  winter   break.  He  noted  that  some                                                                    
students left and could not return  to school due to lack of                                                                    
funds for travel.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
10:12:59 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Olson   asked  how  many  students   were  in  the                                                                    
situation that  Co-Chair Stedman  described where  they were                                                                    
unable to pay for travel to return to school.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Acting Commissioner Teshner did  not have information on the                                                                    
issue  described.  She knew  there  were  other issues  that                                                                    
prevented students  from returning. She agreed  to follow up                                                                    
with the committee with the information.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:13:42 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Acting  Commissioner  Teshner   showed  slide  26,  "Contact                                                                    
Information":                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Heidi Teshner, Acting Commissioner                                                                                         
     heidi.teshner@alaska.gov                                                                                                   
     (907) 465-2875                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Joe Willhoite, Facilities Manager                                                                                          
     joe.willhoite@alaska.gov                                                                                                   
     (907) 465-6569                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Elwin Blackwell, School Finance Manager                                                                                    
     elwin.blackwell@alaska.gov                                                                                                 
     (907) 465-8665                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Laurel Shoop, Legislative Liaison                                                                                          
     laurel.shoop@alaska.gov                                                                                                    
     (907) 465-8703                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Kiehl  thought the  department had  done a  good job                                                                    
describing  a  complex  system. He  considered  whether  the                                                                    
school bond  debt reimbursement moratorium  would eventually                                                                    
prove problematic  if the legislature  failed to  uphold the                                                                    
constitutional   mandate   to   maintain   public   schools.                                                                    
Additionally, the  REAA was funded  through a  proportion of                                                                    
what   was   put   into    the   municipal   school's   debt                                                                    
reimbursement, which meant that there  had been no cash flow                                                                    
into the  fund during  the moratorium. He  felt that  if the                                                                    
moratorium  continued  the  gulf  between  urban  and  rural                                                                    
schools would  grow. He probed  what the state could  do, in                                                                    
terms  of  school  major maintenance,  to  ensure  statewide                                                                    
equity.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:17:17 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Acting  Commissioner  Teshner   thought  Senator  Kiehl  was                                                                    
describing  a  policy  question  to  be  determined  by  the                                                                    
legislature.  She   acknowledged  that  there   was  funding                                                                    
appropriated into the REAA fund,  but the amount of the fund                                                                    
was shrinking.  She stated  that if  the moratorium  were to                                                                    
continue  the fund  would eventually  go down  to zero.  She                                                                    
said that  appropriations from the legislature  were applied                                                                    
how they were given.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Kiehl  appreciated  that  the  department  led  its                                                                    
presentation with  its mission. He thought  leadership could                                                                    
be  a  joint activity,  and  that  the legislature  and  the                                                                    
executive branch could work together to problem solve.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:19:02 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman   said  that   the  REAA  fund   had  been                                                                    
established by  the legislature but that  the administration                                                                    
was  free to  offer  policy suggestions.  He  said that  all                                                                    
major  maintenance  policies  had   so  far  come  from  the                                                                    
legislature,   particularly   from    the   Senate   Finance                                                                    
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:19:54 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bishop considered  the major  maintenance list  and                                                                    
felt that  schools in both  rural and urban areas  should be                                                                    
commended for their maintenance  programs that had put forth                                                                    
the effort to maintain school buildings.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:21:19 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Willhoite   applauded   the  districts   that   showed                                                                    
maintenance  as a  priority. He  considered that  the better                                                                    
the  facility  was  to  start,   the  easier  they  were  to                                                                    
maintain. He qualified  that at times it was  better to tear                                                                    
down  buildings   and  rebuild.  He  thought   it  was  very                                                                    
encouraging to  hear that there  were schools built  even in                                                                    
the 1980s  that were  doing very  well with  maintenance. He                                                                    
did not like sinking good money into bad.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman thanked the presenters and stressed that                                                                       
school major maintenance was a high priority for the                                                                            
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman discussed housekeeping.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
10:24:20 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 10:24 a.m.